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	<title>Comments on: Solar thermal gains steam with Ausra deal</title>
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	<link>http://green.venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/</link>
	<description>News About Tech, Money and Innovation</description>
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		<title>By: Ausra rakes in $24.5M for solar thermal power &#187; VentureBeat</title>
		<link>http://green.venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-824853</link>
		<dc:creator>Ausra rakes in $24.5M for solar thermal power &#187; VentureBeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 00:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/#comment-824853</guid>
		<description>[...] is in the midst of building a 177 megawatt power plant on 640 acres of private land in California&#8217;s San Luis Obispo County. PG&amp;E, which has [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is in the midst of building a 177 megawatt power plant on 640 acres of private land in California&#8217;s San Luis Obispo County. PG&amp;E, which has [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Google, Oak Investment and Idealab back eSolar to the tune of $130M &#187; VentureBeat</title>
		<link>http://green.venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-805077</link>
		<dc:creator>Google, Oak Investment and Idealab back eSolar to the tune of $130M &#187; VentureBeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/#comment-805077</guid>
		<description>[...] which is enough to power from 15,000 - 25,000 average Californian homes. Ausra, by contrast, is planning a 177MW plant in San Luis Obispo County, while Brightsource has a deal for five of about the same size.  Going [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] which is enough to power from 15,000 &#8211; 25,000 average Californian homes. Ausra, by contrast, is planning a 177MW plant in San Luis Obispo County, while Brightsource has a deal for five of about the same size.  Going [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brightsource lands the largest solar deal yet &#187; VentureBeat</title>
		<link>http://green.venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-801078</link>
		<dc:creator>Brightsource lands the largest solar deal yet &#187; VentureBeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/#comment-801078</guid>
		<description>[...] some solar thermal players out of business. To date, PG&amp;E has also struck deals with Ausra for a 177MW plant, and with Solel for 553MW.  BrightSource is perhaps more familiar with the cost equations than any [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] some solar thermal players out of business. To date, PG&amp;E has also struck deals with Ausra for a 177MW plant, and with Solel for 553MW.  BrightSource is perhaps more familiar with the cost equations than any [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ausra sucks up $30M more in venture debt for solar thermal &#187; VentureBeat</title>
		<link>http://green.venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-796291</link>
		<dc:creator>Ausra sucks up $30M more in venture debt for solar thermal &#187; VentureBeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/#comment-796291</guid>
		<description>[...] announcement that it had raised $40 million last September, the company followed up with news of a 177 megawatt project and plans to build a manufacturing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] announcement that it had raised $40 million last September, the company followed up with news of a 177 megawatt project and plans to build a manufacturing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: VentureBeat &#187; Ausra moves to mass-produce solar thermal</title>
		<link>http://green.venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-678008</link>
		<dc:creator>VentureBeat &#187; Ausra moves to mass-produce solar thermal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/#comment-678008</guid>
		<description>[...] the Palo Alto-based solar thermal company that just last month announced plans to build a 177-megawatt solar installation in California, is now in the process of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Palo Alto-based solar thermal company that just last month announced plans to build a 177-megawatt solar installation in California, is now in the process of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Morrison</title>
		<link>http://green.venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-617934</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Morrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 07:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/#comment-617934</guid>
		<description>Greenspan: Current costs for solar thermal are right around 50% higher than the price you&#039;re suggesting, at worst less than double. Ausra has claimed elsewhere that it can already meet the 10 cents/kilowatt-hour price you mention for plants around the size of the they&#039;re planning to build.

Is their claim true? Beats me, but smarter folk than I (with no affiliation to these companies) have done separate cost projections. They suggest that, if solar thermal plants continue to receive investment and are built in numbers, their construction costs will fall enough to put any of the competing solar thermal technologies in that 10 cents range.

For Ausra, BrightSource and others to bank on that scenario playing out is a bet that might see their companies succeed or fail miserably. Your take is that they&#039;re almost certain to fail. That&#039;s fine, but considering that you start your arguments with an attack on the character and intelligence of others (myself and the &quot;unproven people&quot; at Ausra) doesn&#039;t do much to persuade me to your viewpoint.

What&#039;s a little more difficult is addressing the whole range of issues around cleantech, from oil prices, to subsidies, to technology. We&#039;ve dug into those problems here and there in longer past posts, and we&#039;ll continue to do so in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greenspan: Current costs for solar thermal are right around 50% higher than the price you&#8217;re suggesting, at worst less than double. Ausra has claimed elsewhere that it can already meet the 10 cents/kilowatt-hour price you mention for plants around the size of the they&#8217;re planning to build.</p>
<p>Is their claim true? Beats me, but smarter folk than I (with no affiliation to these companies) have done separate cost projections. They suggest that, if solar thermal plants continue to receive investment and are built in numbers, their construction costs will fall enough to put any of the competing solar thermal technologies in that 10 cents range.</p>
<p>For Ausra, BrightSource and others to bank on that scenario playing out is a bet that might see their companies succeed or fail miserably. Your take is that they&#8217;re almost certain to fail. That&#8217;s fine, but considering that you start your arguments with an attack on the character and intelligence of others (myself and the &#8220;unproven people&#8221; at Ausra) doesn&#8217;t do much to persuade me to your viewpoint.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s a little more difficult is addressing the whole range of issues around cleantech, from oil prices, to subsidies, to technology. We&#8217;ve dug into those problems here and there in longer past posts, and we&#8217;ll continue to do so in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Greenspan</title>
		<link>http://green.venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-617794</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenspan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 06:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/#comment-617794</guid>
		<description>Other sources have quoted people close to PG&amp;E stating that other agreements with solar thermal suppliers were signed at around 10 cents/kilowatt-hour.  Since current costs of producing solar thermal are over 50% of that price, the chances that an unproven technology designed by unproven people like Ausra will meet that bar are beyond low.   

You didn&#039;t state that Ausra&#039;s mirrors were cheaper, but that their &quot;approach&quot; was cheaper.  The miniscule savings they get from flat mirrors will be vastly outweighed by losses in efficiency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other sources have quoted people close to PG&amp;E stating that other agreements with solar thermal suppliers were signed at around 10 cents/kilowatt-hour.  Since current costs of producing solar thermal are over 50% of that price, the chances that an unproven technology designed by unproven people like Ausra will meet that bar are beyond low.   </p>
<p>You didn&#8217;t state that Ausra&#8217;s mirrors were cheaper, but that their &#8220;approach&#8221; was cheaper.  The miniscule savings they get from flat mirrors will be vastly outweighed by losses in efficiency.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Morrison</title>
		<link>http://green.venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-617164</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Morrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/#comment-617164</guid>
		<description>Greenspan: Are you a commenter, or just a troll? Perhaps we should skip the labels and just talk about the issues.

PG&amp;E doesn&#039;t disclose the rates it buys electricity at for these kinds of projects or, actually, any project. However, it&#039;s under a mandate to pull 20% of its power from renewable sources by 2010. Thus, PG&amp;E isn&#039;t the only one with bargaining chips on the table. You&#039;re obviously speculating that they&#039;re securing prices that producers like Ausra will never be able to meet, but I&#039;ll leave speculation to you.

The statement that Ausra&#039;s mirrors are cheaper is indeed what the company says. However, it&#039;s not hard to believe that flat mirrors are cheaper. Check it out sometime, at your local mirror shop. You can even buy one for yourself. Just try not to stare into it too much.

Finally, regarding photovoltaic cells -- yes, it&#039;s common knowledge that they aren&#039;t cost-effective yet. With few exceptions, cleantech isn&#039;t, across the board. Although someone may one day genetically modify pigs to fly, I expect that one of the many cleantech bets will pay off before then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greenspan: Are you a commenter, or just a troll? Perhaps we should skip the labels and just talk about the issues.</p>
<p>PG&#038;E doesn&#8217;t disclose the rates it buys electricity at for these kinds of projects or, actually, any project. However, it&#8217;s under a mandate to pull 20% of its power from renewable sources by 2010. Thus, PG&#038;E isn&#8217;t the only one with bargaining chips on the table. You&#8217;re obviously speculating that they&#8217;re securing prices that producers like Ausra will never be able to meet, but I&#8217;ll leave speculation to you.</p>
<p>The statement that Ausra&#8217;s mirrors are cheaper is indeed what the company says. However, it&#8217;s not hard to believe that flat mirrors are cheaper. Check it out sometime, at your local mirror shop. You can even buy one for yourself. Just try not to stare into it too much.</p>
<p>Finally, regarding photovoltaic cells &#8212; yes, it&#8217;s common knowledge that they aren&#8217;t cost-effective yet. With few exceptions, cleantech isn&#8217;t, across the board. Although someone may one day genetically modify pigs to fly, I expect that one of the many cleantech bets will pay off before then.</p>
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		<title>By: Greenspan</title>
		<link>http://green.venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-617108</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenspan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/2007/11/05/solar-thermal-gains-steam-with-ausra-deal/#comment-617108</guid>
		<description>Are you a journalist or a mouthpiece for corporate spin? 

&quot;California energy utility PG&amp;E has agreed to buy power from a 177-megawatt solar thermal plant to be built by Silicon Valley company Ausra.&quot;  

Really? at what price? My guess is at a price that Ausra will never be able to reach cost-effectively, hence they will either never pay Ausra a cent or Ausra will get more dumb money for project finance and will lose money on every kilowatt-hour.

&quot;Although PG&amp;E has now committed to buying over a gigawatt of solar thermal energy in coming years, it remains to be seen which startup’s designs are most effective.&quot;

PG&amp;E has committed to buy power at a price that neither Ausra nor Brightsource can meet.

&quot;However, the latter’s [Ausra&#039;s] approach, which uses mass-produced flat mirrors, is cheaper...&quot;

Says who????

&quot;Photovoltaic cells, which directly capture sunlight, may possibly become cheap enough to be a viable replacement.&quot;

And pigs may possibly fly...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you a journalist or a mouthpiece for corporate spin? </p>
<p>&#8220;California energy utility PG&amp;E has agreed to buy power from a 177-megawatt solar thermal plant to be built by Silicon Valley company Ausra.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Really? at what price? My guess is at a price that Ausra will never be able to reach cost-effectively, hence they will either never pay Ausra a cent or Ausra will get more dumb money for project finance and will lose money on every kilowatt-hour.</p>
<p>&#8220;Although PG&amp;E has now committed to buying over a gigawatt of solar thermal energy in coming years, it remains to be seen which startup’s designs are most effective.&#8221;</p>
<p>PG&amp;E has committed to buy power at a price that neither Ausra nor Brightsource can meet.</p>
<p>&#8220;However, the latter’s [Ausra's] approach, which uses mass-produced flat mirrors, is cheaper&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Says who????</p>
<p>&#8220;Photovoltaic cells, which directly capture sunlight, may possibly become cheap enough to be a viable replacement.&#8221;</p>
<p>And pigs may possibly fly&#8230;</p>
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